My two "prompt" questions to open the dialog on Bladerunner were these:
-- What does Deckard "realize" when he looks at the origami on the floor outside his apartment, just as he is leaving with Racheal?
-- Why does Gaff give Deckard a gun when he says "Its too bad she won't live, but then again, who does?"
-- What does this phrase, stated and repeated in both these scenes have to do with the overall 'message' of the film?
Then, please read the Doppleganger handout, and include in your comments how you understand the 'double' relationship between Deckard and Roy and what you think the implicit comparison between Racheal and Pris in the movie is about.
--Do you think Pris and Racheal are "dopplegangers" in the same way that Deckard and Roy seem to be?
--Are Deckard and Roy "doubles" in some sense (mentioned in the handouts) ? Here's a hint: think about when your 'sympathy' for Deckard, begins to switch to Roy... how did that work, eh? But you know what I mean right? At some point, we are confused about who we feel sorry for, at least most viewers are... I think. But did our sympathies switch from Racheal to Pris? Just curious... your views?
-- How would you describe the characters of Pris and Racheal as "future females", how would you compare them to the Bride and Maria so far?
I hope you enjoyed the movie, I know it is one of my top ten of all time.
skip to main |
skip to sidebar
38 comments:
What does Deckard "realize" when he looks at the origami on the floor outside his apartment, just as he is leaving with Racheal?
In my opinion, I think he realized two things at this time. First, he realized that Gaff has known that Deckard has been with Racheal and has taken care of her at his apartment. However, Gaff does not “execute” her and gives a chance to Deckard because Gaff may know that Deckard loves Racheal. The second thing is that he might be going to be arrested or even executed by Gaff just like Deckard has done to other replicants, if he will be with Racheal instead of executing her. Thus, the origami unicorn could be a “warning” for him. The reason why I think so is that I looked up about unicorn because I did not have an idea on it and the following idea came up by searching. They say that unicorn is the symbol of immaculacy and maiden and according to tradition, only maiden can attract, make him clam down so that people could capture the unicorn. Otherwise, the unicorn is usually ferocious and difficult to catch. In the film, the relationship between Deckard and Racheal is just like same as that of unicorn and maiden who attracts him. As I mentioned above, unicorn is described that he can always be calm if he is with the maiden and same holds for Deckard in this film. He can be just a person who falls in love with someone if he is with Racheal though he is really strong and attack so hard to other replicants. Therefore, what I think the second meaning of message from Gaff to Deckard is that he is telling how easy to get two (Deckard and Racheal) if they are together.
Why does Gaff give Deckard a gun when he says "Its too bad she won't live, but then again, who does?"
I hope that I clearly get the meaning of what Gaff says in here. In my opinion, Gaff might give him a chance to “stay with her” because Gaff knows that Racheal’ life is limited and Deckard is really into her. What I am saying “stay with her” can be either with alive or dead because he is able to save her from the chasers with the gun and also, he might kill himself to be with her “forever” when she is facing her ”time to death.” Either way, they do not have a long life.
What does this phrase, stated and repeated in both these scenes have to do with the overall 'message' of the film?
…To be honest, I was guessing if Deckard is one of the replicants or not since the begging of the movie because I thought he is too strong to be a normal person like us though it is a “movie”..... I may be wrong…but if there is a possibility that he is also a replicant, the meaning of this phrase could be that human beings create a thing or a person like the replicant for their sake and whenever they are done with the things, humans try to abolish or dispose them. In this film, for example, the replicants were created to do some jobs (at the outside of the world/earth?) that human beings cannot do or do not want to do. So, they must have special skills or abilities to handle those jobs such as the replicants have and show in the film. Also, IF Deckard is one of the replicants, his special ability could be to distinguish and execute other replicants which is difficult for humans. I think that is why he was asked again to work as Bladerunner though he quitted.
The world described in the film is messed up by the mixtures of different languages, people in different racism/religion, different foods from different countries, and so on. It is really hard to imagine how we live in that kind of world, but it could be possible if the technology keeps developing fast, humans create and maintain the things only we need and dispose the rest of things just like Bladerunner does to the replicants.
*I will post again for the rest of questions. I just wanted to make comments on these three questions before I forget the details of the film….
Deckard realizes that he is a replicant when he looks at the origami and that both his and Rachael’s lives are arguably mortal – they are destined to die whether they are human beings are replicants. I think the origami unicorn reminds Deckard how Christ-like Roy sacrificed his life for him to redeem him from his sins of killing replicants. Roy also took on the sins of his traitor. Unicorn represents Christ and purity.
Gaff gives a gun to Deckard despite realizing that he is a replicant and lets him go with Rachael instead of killing him. The gesture of giving the gun to Deckard probably serves as a reminder that he is a replicant and that no one is immortal – not even humans; therefore, both he and Rachael are going to die anyway. Gaff probably understands this sense of mortality, and acts God-like by granting Deckard another chance to live. We are born to die – that is our reality.
Gaff’s phrase could be interpreted as a reminder about the inevitable death of human beings, and the danger of playing god in the name of science. In the movie, Tyrell dies in the hands of his own creation – replicant Roy, who had never asked to be created in the first place. It could be a call to the mankind not to lose touch with humanity, and realize that no one is immortal on this earth. The “original” version of the Blade Runner ends with Deckard’s resonating voice –“…… Tyrell told me Rachael was special. No termination day for how long we have together, who does?” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fCeH-WnJYM
Cyberpunk Review states that, “This question about what degree artificial life forms are human is a central theme of the cyberpunk genre.” It further states that "Roy’s monologue near the end……… captures in a single moment the ethical dilemma with creating sentient life. If they (replicants) have free will, can they be really considered property? And if they aren’t property what are they?” questions Cyberpunk Review (http://www.cyberpunkreview.com/movie/decade/1980-1989/blade-runner/).
In the Blade Runner, artificial machines or “replicants” seem more human than human beings and express their desire to live.
As far as I understand, the term “double” is an unconscious extension of the self or the opposite of the self. I think Roy is Deckard’s alter ego, someone that he is not. Roy is the bad guy, while Deckard is the good cop (Blade Runner) who is out to save the world from villains or the replicants. Deckard, in the process of finding himself, and his alter ego, or reuniting with the subconscious part of his soul (Roy), kills two replicants, (one is killed by Rachael). Initially, I sided with Deckard and hoped that he would be able to get rid of all the replicants, but towards the end, both Roy and Pris became more humanized; they wanted to live like humans and even showed affection to each other. Just like Zivkovic states, the double “stands for contradiction within unity, and for unity in spite of division,” Deckard and Roy are out to get each other and are divided (although they are both replicants). “Originally conceived of as a guardian angel, assuring immortal survival to the self, the double eventually appears as precisely the opposite, a reminder of the individual’s mortality, indeed, the announcer of death itself” (Zivkovic). Although Roy is aware of his impending death, Deckard becomes increasingly aware of his mortality when Roy comes after him and starts howling like a messenger of death.
In the climax, when one expects Deckard and Roy to fight hard, there is a sense of unity. Deckard becomes Christ-like, nails his hand, pulls Deckard up without letting him fall off the building, and dies a hero’s death. The role has reversed. It seems as if Roy, like Christ, takes on the sins of Deckard (of killing his own brothers/replicants), and dies in the process of redeeming him. Ironically, Roy is also compared to Lucifer, the fallen angel, especially when he “misquotes” William Blake’s poem by reciting “Fiery the angels fell” instead of “Fiery the angels rose” (Wikipedia)
I do not really think Pris and Rachael are “doppelgangers” in the same way as Deckard and Roy. Both of them, however, seem to be in touch with the reality that time is ticking, and they may not be able to live forever. I don’t think Rachael even cares much about Pris’ death. I felt bad when Pris died, but I was more concerned about Rachael when Gaff said “it’s bad she won’t live, but who does?”
Pris and Rachael are complete opposites – Pris looks tough and trashy, while Rachael is feminine, pure and virgin-like. As “future females,” both of them are strong; Pris is physically strong and even tries to strike down her opponent Deckard, but with little success. Rachael, who looks chaste and feminine, shows her masculine side by gunning down Leon in a bid to save Deckard. The Bride, Robot Maria, and Pris are all futuristic machines, who are later killed/destroyed. Deckard is in love with Rachael just like Freder falls in love with Maria; therefore, both the ladies have “influence” over their men (http://www.putlearningfirst.com/br/metropolis.html).
just a note: The "voiceover" edition (i.e. the first Hollywood version) is what Ridley Scott the director rejected, that is why he produced the directors and final cut versions, which take out the 'voiceover' which he felt was a false interpretation of the movie.
- From my point of view, Deckard is one of the replicants. When Deckard looks at the origami of a unicorn on the floor, I think he realizes that he is a replicant himself. Earlier in the movie, we see a unicorn that Deckard pictures in his head while he was sitting alone in his room. He never mentioned about a unicorn to others, so how come Gaff knows about it? Unless Deckard is a replicant and Gaff knows about what he thinks or picture in his head because the image of the unicorn might be one of the programs that Tyrell put into Deckard.
- Gaff gives Deckard a gun because Deckard has not finished his ‘business’ yet. Rachel is still alive. So, Gaff gives a gun to Deckard so that he can go kill the last replicant, Rachel.
- Either a replicant or a human, we all have to die eventually either in four years or in 80 years. So who does live? The answer would be nobody, we cannot live forever, and this is the overall message of the film. I think what the film is trying to tell us is that death is a normal thing that everyone will have to face sooner or later, and we should be thankful just for being alive.
- Regardless of whether Deckard is one of the replicants or not, Deckard and Roy do not show their emotions and feelings as much at first in the movie. They look tough and show no empathy. When Deckard tells Rachel that she is not a human and that her memory is actually Tyrell’s niece’s memory, it seems like he lacks empathy for Rachael. As for Roy, he, as a replicant, has no empathy for the Chinese man who makes eyes, so Roy tortures him. However, later in the movie, both Deckard and Roy develop their characters. They both show more emotions and empathy. They both fell in love. Deckard hurries home to see if Rachael is safe, which shows that Deckard is worried Rachael, the one he loves. Roy cries when Pris dies, which shows emotion of his.
- I don’t think Pris and Rachael are ‘dopplegangers’ in the same way that Deckard and Roy are. In fact, they are a total opposite. Even though both are replicants, Rachael seems like a genuine woman, and she is sensitive in a way. She does cry when she knows that she is not a human. In contrast, Pris seems fake. What she does for J.F. is all lie because she just wants to get him to do something for her and Roy. Also, we actually don’t really see human qualities from Pris like we see from Rachael.
- I did feel a bit of sympathies for Roy when he has his last word before he dies. I feel like he is like a real human and he does not deserve to be programmed to die in four years. He should have had a right to stay alive longer. However, for some reason, my sympathy did not switch to Pris. I think this is because it is obvious to me that Pris is a replicant as she does not show any soft side of her.
- Pris, Rachael, the Bride, and Maria are machines. They all are created. They are physically strong and doing something risk like men. I guess the characteristic of future females has to be more like that of men. As Blane Runner shows, Pris fights with Deckard without fear, and Rachael saves Deckard’s life by shooting Leon with a gun.
I think finally Deckard realized that he is a replicant. Deckard was wondering what his dream of unicorn is, and after being saved by Roy he began thinking more strongly that he might be a replicant. But he was not quite sure. However, the unicorn origami assured him that he is a replicant. Because Gaff is the one who made origami and knew about Deckard’s dream of unicorn for some reason(might have been implanted into him). At the same time, recalling Gaff’s phrase, Deckard also realized that Gaff knew both of Deckard and Rachael are replicants and even intentionally let him go.
Although Gaff said, “You’ve done your job,” simultaneously he was implying that “your job has not been finished yet. Here’s a gun for you, but it’s up to you whether you’ll use or not.” It would be understood from Deckard’s reaction. After this scene, Deckard quickly returned to his apartment, worrying about whether Rachel might have been killed.
Gaff’s phrase meant that as replicants have limited life, humans are also mortal. I interpreted his phrase like this, “……but then again, who knows?” or “who survives?”
I may be wrong, but I think that from the beginning of this class we have had similar themes of ‘human beings and the future world.’ Here, in Blade Runner, there is also the same message of ‘human’s death’. No matter how fast science and technology make progress, our desire to live eternally would be impossible to be solved. Only God knows. We should recognize mortality of our life.
How miserable Harrison Ford was!(too much empathy?) When he was saved by Roy and flung on the roof, the hero and the villain became completely reversed. Also there were two different situations; before the saving and after the saving. Both Deckard and Roy might have seen a doppelganger. When Roy was looking at Deckard clinging to an iron pillar desperately (before saving him), he might have felt sorry for Deckard because even human being cannot escape from death. And that would supposedly be the half part of Roy. On the other hand, when Roy said, “I’ve seen things you people would not believe….. All the moments will be lost in time like tears in rain……time to die”(after the saving), Deckard seemed as if he were looking at the half of himself. The scene was also showing this by highlighting only a half of his face in the dark. However, I don’t think that Rachel and Pris have met in the movie. There’s no relationship between them. Therefore, I think that ‘double’ or ‘doppelganger’ could be seen among people who have met before and/or have common or similar characteristics.
While Pris is physically strong, wild, and gaudy makeup and fashion like the Bride, Rachael is elegant, sophisticated, and feminine like Maria. Although Pris and Rachael are completely different, once after killing Leon, Rachael appeared with a heavy eye shadow like Pris. It was when she was forced to feel that she is a replicant and said, “I am the business.” However, soon later she became normal or more feminine when she began playing piano and loosening her hair. In every cyberpunk movie such as Matrix or Blade Runner, moviemakers are more likely to portray women physically and mentally strong like men as futuristic females, but they never forget seeking the femininity as well.
Interesting. The exact line that Gaff says is "You've done a man's job, sir"
.. and I appreciate that some of you think that Deckard could be said to realize that he is a replicant too.
Here is my question: the movie really isn't a mystery, where we are wondering this question all the way through is it? If Deckard is a replicant though, what is the movie saying then? What kind of a person/replicant is Deckard? What does Roy think of him if he is a replicant? Is this why Roy doesn't kill him? Is this why Roy tells him the poem?
Now on the other hand, I will tell you that in the authorized book on the making of Bladerunner, there is documentation that Ridley Scott (no matter what he says now...old fart!) sent out memos to all the people working on the film that he specifically wanted the film to be just as possible that Deckard was a human as he was a replicant. He wanted that to remain ultimately ambiguous.
What does that mean then for your interpretation of the film? What does the film tell us if Deckard is a human and what does it tell us if Deckard is a replicant? How does this alternation combine possibly to give us the overall meaning of the film? Think about it.
Do you know those strange pictures made of lines where if you look at them one way its a cat and in another way its an old lady? These are called bi-stable images. Meaning, the image is both a cat and an old lady. Both images are there (and no other ones are there) so the image is both a cat and an old lady at the same time. What is the meaning of such a dual/composite image?
What does Bladerunner say if it is similarly bi-stable?
Just a note: Phillip K. Dick, the author hated Bladerunner, he felt that Deckard in the novel was strictly a human. But Ridley Scott over the years has moved more towards admitting his preferred interpretation is that Deckard is an android.
(But I gotta say, one of the finest lines in cinema was when Roy says to Eldon Tyrell, who asks him "what seems to be the problem?" and Roy responded (in the original and director's cut versions) "I WANT MORE LIFE, FUCKER!" but in the lame ness of the final cut that we watched, Ridley Scott tamed it down and Roy said "I want more life, Father"... What happens to artists when they get old? Can they really understand their own youthful genius? I mean Roy and Pris look PUNK ROCK if anyone does!!! I WANT MORE LIFE, FUCKER! is the ultimate punk rock line, dammit! oh well, I'll stick to the director's cut.)
-- What does Deckard "realize" when he looks at the origami on the floor outside his apartment, just as he is leaving with Racheal?
As you know, Gaff’s origami art always showed Deckard’s mind (a chicken and a man!) Deckard was dreaming of a unicorn before. Surprisingly, Gaff (origami guy) knew Deckard's dream of Unicorn. It means that Deckard's memory was programmed by human being. That is to say, Deckard realized that he was a replicant (,but he didn’t care the fact because he had already attained enlightenment that life was empty dream from Roy’s death.)
-- Why does Gaff give Deckard a gun when he says "Its too bad she won't live, but then again, who does?"
Think about it! Why did Gaff always appear suddenly in front of Deckard?! Why did Gaff have Deckard’s gun?! This scene meant Gaff knew Deckard’s future action because Deckard was a replicant. I think, “who” could be thought Deckard, but also Gaff because Gaff is a real bladerunner. Gaff only knows.
-- What does this phrase, stated and repeated in both these scenes have to do with the overall 'message' of the film?
"Life is an empty dream...(wabi sabi?)"
Thank you for reading. I am improving other questions. See you soon!
Oh! Wait! What does “who does” mean? I have another idea...
Gaff gave Deckard’s gun to tell Deckard that he was a replicant (Unicorn origami had a same meaning) and tried to notice Deckard has a short life limit. Then Gaff allowed Deckard to escape from the Tirell company (human beings) because“Gaff”realized, "Life is an empty dream (wabi sabi?)" In this case, “who does” means… We are all mortal.
Oh, I missed the most important word 'man's job'. He was telling 'you are not a man'.
I think this movie is a kind of an entertainment saying that the hero whose mission is to kill replicants is finally revealed as a replicant. However, this movie also tries to ask us, 'what are replicants?' 'what are humans?' 'what is human’s identity?
I'll try to answer the rest of questions.... hader and harder...
One of the most pivitol scenes that brings the entire movie together is when Deckard and Racheal are leaving the apartment...it is at that time that Deckard sees the origami unicorn (Miyuki san, can you please make one for me ;-) We know that Gaff has left the origami to mark Replicants...it is at this time that Deckard understands that HE HIMSELF is a Replicant.
I think Gaff gives Deckard the gun to kill Rachael, as this is his mission as the Blade Runner to kill the last Replicant, Rachael...or maybe he is supposed to turn the gun on himself. I think that the entire message of the film is that no one is immortal, and no one lives forever. From mortals who will run their normal course in life, to die of natural causes or at the hands of someone else, eventually our time has come. At the same time, even these "superhuman" Replicants, have their own lifespan; and the clock is always ticking...4 years to live, that's all you get.
I do not think that Rachael and Pris are dopplegangers. First of all, Pris is nasty...you could get some mad disease from a Replicant like that. On the other hand, Rachael is HOT...she maintains this proper beauty, and in this crazy world, she is one of the most wholesome things...an almost perfect creation...as was the intention of Tyrell. On the other hand, I think that there is a much stronger case for Deckard and Roy as doppelgangers. The final chase scene in the abandoned building is amazing...it brings the entire relationship together. There is an entire cat and mouse game being played. AT ANY TIME, Roy could have killed Deckard; he ripped his hand through the wall to break his fingers...it could have easily have been his neck. When Roy busts his own head through the bathroom wall, I have visions of Jack Nickelson in The Shining...creepy! As doppelgangers, I think it almost impossible as a matter of self-preservation for Roy to kill Deckard...instead, he raises Deckard up, releases his dove and passes away. I know that I feel sorry for Roy as the movie progressed, and I did not feel that way at the beginning...except when he crushed Tyrell's head...that was cool. When the machine turns on the master...the ants eventually turn on the grasshoppers!!
Pris and Rachael are perfect future females. Dr. G, I KNOW I DID NOT have any sympathy for Pris...she is nasty...something that you could probably buy out of a vending machine in 2019. I was fine when she died...flopping around like some big marlin on the deck of a fishing troller...Deckard had to shoot her several times to get her to die. Pris is very much like The Bride...including her wild hair, and makeup...she really does not speak too much, and she is crazy. Rachael is much the future female in her black tight dress, her hair pulled up like some 1920's telephone operator. Ultimately, they are all machines...a creation by some man to serve a purpose...and a purpose that seems to always go wrong.
What does Deckard "realize" when he looks at the origami on the floor outside his apartment, just as he is leaving with Rachael?-I believe that Deckard realizes that he is a replicant himself. Gaff is a police lieutenant who works for Bryant and has a habit of making tiny origami animals and leaving them at places he visits. He makes a chicken, for example, and later what looks like a human with an erection, which is probably a comment on Deckard's attraction to Rachael. When Deckard and Rachael leave his apartment to go on the run, Rachael knocks over a tiny origami unicorn left on the floor of the hall. Obviously the origami means that Gaff is telling Deckard that he’s been there and therefore knows that Deckard is protecting Rachael, and that he will allow them to make their escape. However, Gaff has already told Deckard this when he arrives at the scene of Roy’s death and says, “I guess you’re through,” even though Gaff knows Deckard has not yet “retired” Rachael. Gaff is then even more precise by saying, “It’s too bad she won’t live.” (I will come to this statement in my second response) Therefore, the origami message is pointless unless Gaff is trying to communicate a new idea. The questions arises why did Gaff specifically choose a unicorn and does he have knowledge of Deckard’s dreams, just as Deckard knows Rachael’s memories? If this is the case, there is only one possible explanation: Deckard’s memories have also been implanted, which means that Deckard is a replicant, too.
Why does Gaff give Deckard a gun when he says, "Its too bad she won't live, but then again, who does?"- As I just mentioned above, I think that Deckard is a replicant himself. Taking this thought into consideration I consider this statement as a suggestive remark made by Gaff. Obviously, she will die eventually, but so will he as they are of the same kind. What does this phrase, stated and repeated in both these scenes have to do with the overall 'message' of the film? -My interpretation of the statement is that the question arises, what does it mean to be human? Who are the real humans or better who is more human, the humans or the replicants? Like another unnatural, emotionally immature and therefore dangerous creation, Mary Shelley’s Frankenstein, the replicants are ironically the more noble creatures, vilified and destroyed by those who misunderstand them.
I will now read the Doppelganger handout and return with my final answers to the last questions later.
"What does Deckard "realize" when he looks at the origami on the floor outside his apartment, just as he is leaving with Racheal?"
Deckard does finally realize that he himself may be a replicant based upon the unicorn "dream" and then at the end with the actual origami unicorn. This leaves the audience to wonder if possibly Gaff knows Deckard's memories just like Deckard knew Rachael's memories due the flies on her memory implants. Another clue besides at the end that Deckard is a replicant is when in the middle of the movie when Rachael asks Deckard if he's ever taken the test himself....makes you wonder if the intention was that she was curious or that she thought he himself might actually be a replicant.
"Why does Gaff give Deckard a gun when he says "Its too bad she won't live, but then again, who does?"
All are immoral and in this case, replicants are programmed to die. Maybe he gave him the gun so that after Rachel 's dies he would then fast track his death and turn it on himself.
"Are Deckard and Roy "doubles" in some sense?" Here's a hint: think about when your 'sympathy' for Deckard, begins to switch to Roy... how did that work, eh? But you know what I mean right? At some point, we are confused about who we feel sorry for, at least most viewers are... I think. But did our sympathies switch from Racheal to Pris? Just curious... your views?"
-- I can see how it would be doubles with Pris and Rachael as they are complete opposites in their personality/characteristics(both being futuristic females yet polar opposites.) I never at any point felt sympathy for Pris, I actually just wanted her to hurry up and die. I see how the sympathy did switch up. I always felt for Deckard and not Roy yet when Roy lifted Deckard up- He saved him instead of himself(like a Christ-like savior)with the hole in the hand and the symbolic dove and saving instead of killing Deckard as maybe Roy knew Deckard had to complete his destiny.
" How would you describe the characters of Pris and Racheal as "future females". Pris was like the Bride due to her freaky look and personality in that their use of verbal communication was limited. Pris show her future female side as in her fighting skills and tough whereas Rachel although she has this wholesome innocent feminine look and personality, she surpises the auidence when she using the gun in the neck of time in order to save Deckard.
-I really enjoyed this movie as there is something about Blade Runner is actually unlike any movie I have seen.
First of all, I realized that “Bladerunner” used the same thesis (theme) as Paradise Lost, Frankenstein (and Ghost in the Shell)… These movies described the sin of the creating new creatures by human beings.
At this point, “Tyrell” was the same as Dr. Frankenstein. Tyrell and Frankenstein both were cold-blooded for their creatures. However, I sympathized with the creatures because they might be good creatures by nature. They cannot help using violence in their fated situation.
Now, Doppelganger is drawn as dark doubles of individual identities in SF movies. In “Frankenstein,” Frankenstein (creature) was considered as doppelganger of Dr. Frankenstein. This point is different from “Bladerunner.” Dr. Tyrell was not described as doppelganger of replicants. Deckard and Roy are "dopplegangers" in this movie. (←to tell the truth, I am not sure… Class! Explain me!)
At first, Replicant Roy was described as a fallen angel (or Lucifer.) This creature was exiled from Paradise (society? Earth?) by the creator. However, in chase, Roy nailed down his hand. It was considered as the crucifixion, namely he became Jesus. After that, his position changed off with Deckard. Deckard was chased by Roy. Then, Roy (Jesus) saved Deckard when Deckard would fall from a height. That is to say, Roy saved Deckard from falling down from a height (escape Lost Paradise,) also raised him to Heaven (absolution.)
-- How would you describe the characters of Pris and Racheal as "future females", how would you compare them to the Bride and Maria so far?
First of all, Pris’ “raccoon” makeup is copied in many pictures and films (Daryl Hannah is a great actress!!) Anyway, Pris, Racheal, the Bride and Maria (evil) are creatures. They are strong and beautiful. Why? Because women always are at the center of the world. However, actually, these character are the essence of female (not only FUTURE female!)
P.S. Actually, I am sure that Deckard is a replicant. He has a lot of pictures in his place, and they are black-and-white pictures (means old pictures) although he lives in 2020. As you know, replicants love pictures because pictures are their guide. I mean, they depend on memories in pictures.
(I may be a replicant too because I love pictures, am a perfect creature(!!!), always seek… absolution… I must be a fallen angel. You should suspect if you are replicant too.)
I think that Miyuki might be a Replicant...has anyone seen any origami unicorns lying around her desk?
But if our sympathies crose,if the doppleganger effect suggests that Deckard and Roy, Dr. Frankenstein and the Monster... are two sides of one human situation, one personality in other words... then what do these movies say about making humans the sexual way?
Deckard, if he is a human is a date rapist, and if he is a replicant, he is a date rapist... don't you think?
Let me ask another question: Do you think Racheal really loves Deckard? What are her 'motives' to possibly 'feign' her affection? Why does she repeat exactly what he tells her to say?
Is this because she realizes what he does not? that he is a an android from her "tribe" or is she just a chick on the run, who will sleep with the cop to get away from the law?
Let me ask this another way: Which couple do you believe loves each other more? ROy and PRis or Deckard and Rachel? why? give the reasons for your belief here, not just your feelings...
AND if I may ask again:
If Deckard is a replicant though, what is the movie saying then? What kind of a person/replicant is Deckard? What does Roy think of him if he is a replicant? Is this why Roy doesn't kill him? Is this why Roy tells him the poem?
Very interesting, but very difficult.
I think while Roy has atained enlightenment, unfortunately Deckard has not.
Thinking of this result or the difference between the two ( although I cannot comment about their personalities yet),
the relationship of Roy and Pris seems to me more true and absolute than that of Deckard and Racheal...how strange and interesting!
Roy and Pris seemed to have much more sincere of a passion....that sincere intense desire for the other whereas with Rachel and Deckard--felt programmed....forced at first but then felt somewhat true although robotic as she would simply repeat whatever he said. When Pris died, Roy's emotional response vaildated his deep sincere love for her as well. *will write more in a bit.
I think because Roy and Pris don't know how love they have to 'live,' their passion for one another is stronger than that of Deckard and Racheal. Agreeing with Cristie, once Roy sees Pris dead, he is fueled with rage because of his love for her (and now what does he really need to extend his life for now?). On the other had, when Racheal repeats what Deckard wants her to, you don't know if it is because she really does love him. After finding out she is a replicant, she probably wonders if she is capable of love at all. I think she does love Deckard (which is either fueled by her passion or her own protection- or maybe she's meant to protect/save Deckard). I will write more later.
In comparing Racheal and Pris, in terms of looks, there is no comparison! Racheal looks like a movie star out of the 1940s…simple, but remarkably beautiful. Besides her always looking put-together, she is a classy female and makes sure Deckard knows by letting him know “that’s not my kind of place” when he invites her out. On the other hand, we have Pris. I agree with Adam, she is nasty. She never looks put-together; in fact, she looks scary and almost like the ‘friends’ in the house (that were made). Even the Bride of Frankenstein was ore put together than Pris and knew what was going on around her. I feel like Pris was made in error (even being compared to Roy, she is a lower grade replicant). Racheal is definitely a future female. Although she doesn’t fight like Trinity, she saved Deckard’s life once…and maybe ‘saved’ Deckard (by being a replicant and showing Deckard that they are just as human as humans). In terms of the movie, Racheal is shown ‘in the light’ like Maria and, just as the music begins, we know that she is the future female of Bladerunner.
As far as Deckard and Roy go, they seem to switch roles in Bladerunner. I agree with the handout that these two mean do have a special relationship. First, we look at Deckard as the hero and savior…then it switches to Roy when he recites the poem before he dies. Even the white dove, as it is let loose is a symbol of Roy’s goodness (and the mercy we should have for him). On a side note, I ever felt sympathy for Pris…I always thought of Racheal as the future female and my thoughts were on her).
Rachel had asked Deckard whether he taken a replicant test at the office. Rachel suspected that Deckard might be a replicant. Then she realized he was a replicant when she found a lot of pictures in his room, finally.
I think that Rachel might be a bladerunner (to kill replicants.) Therefore, she started to approach Deckard, and stayed at his room to kill him. All bladerunner could be replicants (because the job is too danger to human beings).
I am not sure whether she fell in love with Deckard at the last, but I am sure that she approached him as a bladerunner at first.
SO, Roy and Pris’s love is more innocent and pure.
P.S. What is “C-beam (?!)” ?
I agree with Celina that Rachael did indeed love Deckard. I feel she did not really feign her love for Deckard. She might have been startled in the beginning when Deckard grabbed her; however, she ended up repeating “kiss me” “I want you” after him. He probably wanted her to feel the emotions of love by getting her to repeat the phrases. From that moment (after experiencing passionate love), she might have genuinely fallen for Deckard. Nevertheless, she may not have wanted to die a premature death let alone share the same fate of other replicants. If I remember correctly, Deckard, the Blade Runner’s mission was to “retire” six replicants. Zhora, Leon, Roy, Pris, Rachael including Deckard were the six replicants.
I think both the couples loved their partners very much and I could not figure out who loved whom the most. When Deckard killed Pris, Roy was enraged and made his frustration obvious, but he saved Deckard’s life instead of killing him. Therefore, Roy did not avenge his lover’s death. I think Roy eulogized his love for Pris by sacrificing his life and forgiving Deckard. Rachael proved her love for Deckard by gunning down Leon at a time when Deckard’s life was at stake. When Gaff told Deckard, "It’s too bad she won't live, but then again, who does?" Deckard seemed very concerned and worried about Rachael, so I think he genuinely loved her.
It was very interesting to read different opinions on the Blade Runner, particularly those that I had overlooked while watching the movie. I never thought that Gaff could have given Deckard a gun to kill Rachael so I found Pitchaya’s argument interesting. I enjoyed reading Hiroko’s observation that the camera highlighted “only half of his (Dekard’s) face in the dark to emphasize that Deckard and Roy were a doppelganger. Her argument that “You’ve done a man’s job” could be interpreted as Dekard not being a man is convincing. I enjoyed reading Miyuki’s point that the Blade Runner and Frankenstein used the same theme from John Milton’s Paradise Lost. I also realized (after posting) that I had mistakenly given the credit of Roy’s intentional misquotation to William Blake instead of John Milton thanks to Wikipedia. How could I miss it! I liked Adam’s comparison of Pris with the Bride. I thoroughly enjoyed watching the Blade Runner. No wonder it is a cyber-punk sci-fi classic!
Another possibility is that Gaff gives Deckard the gun, because running off with Racheal is "the prize"... i.e. since he has "done a man's job"... he gets the man's prize: the girl. But as Gaff notes, its not for long.. she (and he, regardless of whether he is a replicant or a human) won't live long!
But is anyone willing to try out the more difficult problem, which is that the movie also makes sense if Deckard is a human... in which case, Racheal and Roy teach Deckard that Machines are just as Human as humans... "More human than Human" is the Tyrell Corp. motto.
How could Deckard be a higher model of replicant since Roy is clearly his physical and spiritual superior? Deckard's frailty is what makes him seem human and why we sympathize with him at first.
In this interpretation, we remember that Deckard simply viusalizes a Unicorn... just as any of us would... but we know that unicorns don't exist... they are figures of the imagination, poetry... and this is to show that even real humans have "arificial memories" too.
Haven't you ever confused a photo you remember for the real memory? Is it live or is it memorex?
The point of the movie in this frame is that the prejudice against machines is unfair... if they have life, memories and emotions, it doesn't matter that they have a 4 year life span, they are the same as humans and humans can fall in love with them. Hence Deckard and Racheal.
But I like Miyuki's interpretation that when Racheals sees the photos on Deckard's piano, it makes her hot, because she realizes that Deckard is an android too... its like finding out that someone you have a crush on is a member of your own race, but didn't know it or something, no? Interesting.
But those could be his real photos, and the point then would be that humans have artitificial memories too, old photos of dead relatives etc. And think about the soundtrack to the film! Is it ironic?
Isn't it possible that many of you feel that Deckard and Racheal have a true love because the soundtrack told you so, that it swelled in all the righ places, and made your "artificial memories" tell you that it was true love not date rape and convenience love.
Isn't it true that Racheal desperately needs Deckard to escape extinction?
Is this the basis for true love? True eroticism, for sure, but repeating the exact words you are told to say, is a bit b and d no? Just asking... provoking you to think here...
Me? I think the movie is intentionally made to encompass both "Deckard is a human" and "Deckard is a replicant" interpretations. I just think that the fact that both could be true, is the main point of the movie: that technology is MAN MADE, its the MOST human thing that there is!!! We are far closer to our technologies than we will ever be to nature, don't you think? Or can you admit that, you air conditioning, gas guzzling, imported fruit eating mavericks?
Now, I am thinking a meaning of unicorn. In this movie, an owl was drawn as asymbol of Tylell, Zola could be a snake, Roy was a pigeon, Pris was a raccoon… Needless to say, a unicorn is a symbol of Deckard.
As you know, the unicorn is tamable only by a virgin woman. I mentioned above, a possibility that Rachel was a bladerunner to kill Deckard (all bladernner were replicants). Rachel was drawn as a virgin. Rachel might be a virgin to catch a unicorn.
Next, I mention "done a man's job."
First of all, Gaff’s origami arts expressed a (sexual) relationship between Deckard and Rachel. That is to say, Gaff knows Deckard has caught by Rachel. A “Done a man’s job” sound like that Deckard was a rapist, but indeed Rachel was a rapist.
Other 2 female replicants seduced men. Zola is a snake, equal to Eve. Pris seduced Sebastian. Therefore, Rachel might seduce Deckard, as other female replicants.
…Future female is drawn as Eve?
This movie, Blade Runner is really an interesting movie. The more we re-think of the effect of each element of the movie, the deeper we become gradually and interestingly drawn into its fascination. To the people who watched this as just one of entertainment movies (like me, really ten years ago I was so…), they would never be able to understand this fascinating story.
This time I look at an ‘eye’. I think this movie focuses on an ‘eye’ from the beginning; testing a Replicant with his eye, Chew’s laboratory where he produces Replicant’s eye, Tylell was killed with his eyes being crushed, and the eyes of an owl were glitterring ominously. Additionally, Pris’s raccoon-like (thanks! Miyuki) makeup too.
Then, what does an eye symbolize? We can see through our eyes and know what we are seeing. Knowing an object means understanding the object. However, how can we see ourselves? Of course, physically we can see oneself through a mirror. But we can never see our mind. Then, how can we understand ourselves, or see/know what we are thinking? By making an android which has the same character and mind as you have?
I think that one of messages of this movie would be similar to that of the Matrix, “Wake up!” But, this time would be a little more Gnostic, “Know yourself!” “See what and how you can see!”
Correction:"See what and how you can see in yourself!"
"Is this to be an empathy test?" -Dr Tyrell
In english the folk expression that best captures the idea of empathy is this one: "Try and see things through my eyes, my point of view, my perspective" or an older one "walk a mile in my shoes".
If you are late to this blog and feel that everything has been explored, or if you want to try another angle on the mysteries we are exploring, try this:
Take the two possible interpretations I have been writing about (remember that I think the movie's ultimate meaning must encompass them both, i.e. both are true, both are 'what the movie is about', the fact that in this film, it is the same message (humans and technology are more natural than nature, that DNA and natural reproduction is what is 'foriegn' to us, that which our morality systems seek to alienate us from)..
SO, since Roy seems to be teaching Deckard a lesson, as Hiroko says, Roy achieves enlightenment, not Deckard... what is the lesson that Roy teaches Deckard?
--if Deckard is an android, and Roy knows this, what is he trying to say to Deckard in the final sequences?
--if Deckard is a human, what is Roy trying to teach/say to Deckard?
Its a really interesting questiion and look forward to your answers!!!
All ideas and different aspects on this movie are interesting. As some of you mentioned, I really do not think that Pris and Racheal are dopplegangers in the same way that Deckard and Roy are. Pris does not seem that she has emotions like Racheal does. That is why, my sympathies switched more from Pris to Racheal because Racheal shows her emotions by irritating at the test which Deckard does to her, crying when she knows that her memory is implanted, and loving Deckard. I am not sure if she really falls in love with Deckard since she is indeed a replicant. However, I also think she did not kill Leon unless she has “feelings” to Deckard since it is really hard or difficult for a person who has emotions to kill someone even if the target is a replicant.
Pris and Racheal are perfect future female figures like the Bride and Maria do. Obviously, Pris is a physically strong, but as Miyuki (?) mentioned, she also knows how to seduce a male. As for Racheal, we can see her sensitive and warm features as women and also her strongness from the scene of protecting Deckard’s death by shooting a gun to Leon. So far, the common features of future females in the movies are described as having strongness and sensitivity at the same time. However, I feel that they are getting lack of showing their feelings clearly to their partners because the future females are created to their goals besides loving someone.
What does Deckard "realize" when he looks at the origami on the floor outside his apartment, just as he is leaving with Rachael?
Well let’s see… I believe that Deckard “realizes” after seeing the origami unicorn left at his apartment by Gaff, that first, Gaff may not be the ass we think he is, and second that Gaff doesn’t really care, because Deckard was right when he told Rachael earlier that he wouldn’t go after her, but someone would eventually. Gaff knows about Rachael and Deckard, probably has known for a while, maybe he believes that in the screwed up world they live in that someone at least deserves a chance. But why the unicorn? Could Gaff know about the dream of the unicorn that Deckard had? This could raise the question that Deckard could be a replicant, but I don’t think so, Deckard to me seems to have too many human qualities to be a replicant. It could be coincidence, or it could be because of what the unicorn represents.
Why does Gaff give Deckard a gun when he says "Its too bad she won't live, but then again, who does?"
I think he gives him a gun because well, he’s gonna need it. Someone will come after them eventually. Gaff giving Deckard the gun gives them a fighting chance.
Robin, you are a perfect candidate... what is the lesson that Roy teaches Deckard, given your views of the film?
If Deckard is a replicant, I think what the movie is trying to say is that both humans and replicants are so much alike. It is because the fact that we confuse with the idea whether Deckard is a human or a replicant. In other words, it is hard for us to distinguish a replicant from a human being.
If Deckard is a human, the film tells us that replicants are gaining more emotions and empathy whereas humans are losing their emotions and empathy, and that replicants with emotions, like Roy, are deserved to live more than humans without emotions.
As a person, Deckard is cold. He does not care much about how Rachael would feel when he tells her that she is not a human. On that scene in particular, he shows no emotion or sympathy for her. He might not have many friends as on the very first scene we see him eating noodles all by himself. On the other hand, Deckard, as a replicant, is a sensitive one. Toward the end of the moive, he is worried about Rachael, his love one. After Guff says Rachael would die soon, Deckard hurries home to find Rachael. He is also a weak replicant comparing to Roy that Roy’s fighting ability and strength are better than Deckard’s.
From my point of view, Roy thinks, if Deckard is a replicant, that Deckard is one of his people who are created the same way and will die the same way. And yes I think this is why Roy doesn’t kill Deckard. Roy has developed his emotional responses, so he feels empathy for Deckard who has the same path as he does. Roy knows that Deckard is dying soon, so he might put himself in Deckard’s position and think what he would want the most. The answer is to live the longest life possible! So, I think this is why Roy saves Deckard’s life.
I think Roy really loves Pris, as he cries when Pris is dead. But still I didn’t see that Pris shows any love to Roy.
At the beginning, I’m not so sure if Deckard, who thinks himself is a human, loves Rachael or not since Rachael seems to be the only woman in his life. At the end, I’m sure Deckard loves Rachael because he cares more about her as we see his face looks worried when he wonders if Rachael are okay.
Rachael is a replicant and she knows that she is a replicant, so she might be afraid that she cannot love someone. I agree with Celina’s comment that “she [Rachael] probably wonders if she is capable of love at all.” So, I think Rachael tries her hardest to feel love for Deckard and to prove that she has a human-like emotion of love. So, she repeats those things that Deckard says. And I think at the end, her theory works. She has developed her human-like emotions and has become to love Deckard.
I think Deckard and Rachael, as a couple, love each other more because both of them feel the same way. But I think among Deckard, Roy, Rachael and Pris, I would say Roy is the one who loves his/her love one the most.
I found Hiroko’s comment on 'man's job' interesting. The film makes us wonder long before the unicorn origami scene whether Deckard is/can be a replicant. And what Gaff saying ‘you’ve done a man’s job’ is one of those calls that you’ve done a MAN’s job. So, it is not supposed for Deckard, as a replicant, to get this job done because he is not a man, not a human.
As Miyuki comments that “All bladerunner could be replicants (because the job is too danger to human beings),” I agree with her that some bladerunners, maybe not all, could be replicants. And these replicants, are created to do the dangerous work, which is to kill other replicants.
I also found Miyuki’s comment interesting that Miyuki describes Roy, at first, as Lucifer and, later on, as Jesus as he’s got a nail in his palm and he saves Deckard’s life.
Celina mentions Deckard as hero and savior at first then it switches to Roy. So, Roy is also a hero and savior or Jesus as Miyuki says. Celina also mentions about the white dove as “a symbol of Roy’s goodness.” Also from what I remember, on the scene when Roy is about to die we can hear a sound effect of a church bell ring, which is another symbol of a goodness as well.
To conclude, I agree with Mikiko that the movie intentionally shows diversity of people living in LA in 2019. As we can see, people on the street speak different languages; there’s Chinatown; and there’s Japanese alphabets everywhere. So that means there’s globalization and people coming from different cultures will become closer and closer in the future.
Do you think Pris and Racheal are "dopplegangers" in the same way that Deckard and Roy seem to be? – Yes, I believe they could be doppelganger in the same way than Deckard and Roy. The difference between the two couples is that the men are carrying a mean side, whereas the women are both extremely good hearted. This explains why they are doppelganger in the same way. Are Deckard and Roy "doubles" in some sense (mentioned in the handouts)? – They are not the conventional double, meaning having usually a guardian angel or a tempting devil, but since Deckard is a replicant too, it seems that Roy represents the unconscious content and Deckard is the real person in the outside world. Here's a hint: think about when your 'sympathy' for Deckard, begins to switch to Roy... how did that work, eh? But you know what I mean right? At some point, we are confused about who we feel sorry for, at least most viewers are... I think. But did our sympathies switch from Racheal to Pris? Just curious... your views? – That is a good point, however as from my point of view, the girls don’t have a scene in which the sympathies could change. Personally my sympathy is equally distributed for both women/replicants.
How would you describe the characters of Pris and Racheal as "future females"? – I don’t see them represented as future females at all. The only futuristic aspect is that they are programmed and are therefore able to perform futuristic. However, they are not represented as strong and are more pushed around and used as women than anything else.
uvieqWhat is the lesson that Roy teaches Deckard at the end of the film? I believe, and I think you have to operate under the premise when analyzing the film, that Roy knew that Deckard was a Replicant the entire time. It goes to reason given the knowledge that Roy possesses as a superior Replicant...of the highest model to date that Tyrell has made. Deckard himself always seems drawn to the Replicants...he falls in love with Rachael, and tries to "protect" Zhora while she showers.
It is likely that Roy in the final scene is trying to connect with Deckard since they truly are kindred spirits...Ddeckard being one of the missing unaccounted for Replicants. As Roy is arguably the Christ figure in the story, in the final scene, it is almost like his final crucifixion...that he is dying for the sins of man, Deckard, so that he can be with his mate...Rachael...almost an Adam and Eve allegory. The white dove is a Christ symbol, and a nice poetic touch.
The perfect candidate eh?? Haha… well given my views on the film, I believe that Roy has taught Decker what it is to be human. That a life is not worth living, if you live in fear. Being human isn’t just a birthright, there are people who waste away their entire lives doing nothing, but Roy has been able to experience and see things that people wouldn’t even believe. “Things that will be lost in time like tears in rain.” The scene at the end of the movie shows that Roy, although isn’t considered human, is perhaps more human than most. I think that because of this, Decker sees life differently, one that not only includes Rachael, but perhaps something that everyone strives for. A reason.
Because we won't have much classtime to discuss Bladerunner this week... I am dipping in and saying things here to substitute for a 'lecture'... I hope people are actually reading the posts, and not just reading the initial prompts and answering those questions, as the dialog here has been really great and the themes have been nicely contrasted by many of you! Great reading, this blog.
Let me make a connection for you, based on Adam's last comment. If Roy knows Deckard is a replicant (this adds poignancy to the things Roy says in the final stalking/fight "Show me what you're made of Deckard" "I thought you were the good man" etc..)
So...if Roy knows/thinks Deckard is a replicant... then isn't Roy doing exactly what the Frankenstein Monster did at the end of Bride of Frankenstein?
But reversed?
In other words, Roy is letting himself die in order to let the couple live... but this time, its not (if Deckard is a replicant OR a human, since Racheal can't have children!) the reproductive order (breeders) that are saved, its a chance at love which is saved.
I think this dramatic theme, of love which does not have its basis in reproduction which is upheld by the Christ figure, Roy at the end of Bladerunner that is most Gnostic in its spirituality, and definitely christ-like in its observance that 'love is the only law'.
Please everybody, don't flake on me: I asked you to read the Gospel of Thomas and the handout on The American Religion. I assigned each of you to select one verse that you most like personally and tell us why, and one verse that is most DIFFERENT from the orthodox Jesus of the traditional new testament, or standard legend. OK?
Here is our schedule for tommorrow night:
5:30-7 pm dinner and sunset 'observance of the light"
7-8 pm Class discussion on Gnostic readings
8-10 pm Watch Ghost in the Shell
Post a Comment